By Pastor B.G. Stumberg - Your turn - 08/22/08
I was disappointed by your question of the week both because of its bias and because of its failure to capture the real issue at stake in Montana by the state’s “incidental political committee” laws.Churches and community groups should not be made political committees simply for speaking on an issue that is fundamental to the group’s faith and/or convictions. I speak regularly from the pulpit on the importance of defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman, and encouraged my congregation to support our state’s marriage amendment in 2004 — the same amendment that has now been passed overwhelmingly in 27 states, “blue” and “red” alike and was passed here by a landslide. My church is not “anti-gay”— it’s pro-marriage as it has been defined from the beginning of time across every culture and religion. My church is anti-sin, whether that sin is homosexual or heterosexual. We’re against adultery just as we stand against homosexual acts.But the complaint that was filed against my church by an out-of-state professional political organizer was not about same-sex “marriage.” It is about an effort by special interest groups to squelch the free speech of community groups and churches in Montana. In the example of my church, it was aimed at squelching the free speech of conservative churches that spoke in favor of the marriage amendment. The same out-of-state professional political organizer that filed the complaint also organized the mass distribution of letters to hundreds of churches across the state threatening that if they supported the amendment, they’d have to become political committees and would put their tax exempt status at risk. The letters had their intended effect and many groups simply chose not to discuss the issue. That’s because the laws’ burdens are difficult for small churches like mine — especially considering that any failure to follow them to the T can result in a civil and criminal prosecution.Last time around the intimidation effort was against conservative community members like my church. Next time it might be against liberal community members. My opposition to these laws is the same in both instances. When important issues come up for a vote in Montana, they deserve robust discussion from diverse viewpoints. Requiring community groups to become political committees because they speak on a important social issues inhibits free speech, hurts democratic government, and violates the First Amendment.Ironically, the law exempts newspapers from any obligations to become a political committee for supporting a ballot issue. So when the IR writes editorials against the marriage amendment or any other ballot issue, it does not have to become a political committee or make any other report to the state. But if any other group or church did the same thing, it would have to register as a political committee. That fact has been lost in IR’s coverage of this case. So perhaps next week’s question of the week can be this: “Should newspapers like the IR be forced to become a political committee for running an editorial advocating defeat of a pro-marriage ballot issue, just like other community groups are required to?”My vote is that neither the IR nor any other community group should be penalized or subject to rigorous state burdens simply for voicing opinion on an important issue under debate in our state. Indeed, it’s what the First Amendment encourages and protects, regardless of whether the speech is considered liberal, conservative, “anti-gay” or “anti-marriage.” It’s disappointing that the IR would hide behind its own special exemption under the law, but fail to defend the exercise of the same constitutional rights by community groups like my church.
B.G. Stumberg is pastor at the Canyon Ferry Road Baptist Church in East Helena.
Aug 22, 2008
Aug 17, 2008
Paul threatens Robert
Robert,
Whether you score a 6 or a 60, without justification you have played the part of an antagonistic, caustic adversary. In other words, in the vernacular of our day, you are acting like an xxhole. We don’t need a test to prove that. The evidence is right here in our correspondence.
Yes, I did prophesy that God would require respect and humility from you. That is not an evil thing or remotely resembling a curse. On the contrary, it is a very good thing. You are the one who made it a “curse” about your tongue. What you are telling us is that you would rather lose your tongue than use it for wholesome purposes; you would have God remove it first. We say, “So be it.”
I did say, “Mark your calendar.” All that meant was to note the time when you determinedly set your face towards destruction. And, no, I did not expect you to do this, or to understand. I also prophesied that when all is said and done, which will not take long, you will know that you have been dealing with the Real Thing; God is with us.
I said it will not go well for you. It can’t, not with the way you conduct yourself. The law of reaping and sowing has not been repealed. That is the truth, which does not require a prophet to pronounce.
Furthermore, even before you spoke up about your challenge of a week to fulfill the curse you determined on yourself, I prayed to God that He would give you to ask of Him what you should have for a judgment. I had no way of knowing you would actually do such a thing. But there you were, the very next day, asking that God would silence your tongue, and giving Him a week deadline to do so.
He has not. So what are you to make of this? Obviously to you it is reason to celebrate and ridicule us all the more. No doubt you will do the same with this letter. But we ask you to publish it. We certainly will. We have nothing to hide or fear.
Here is what I see: God is longsuffering, which fools mistake for non-existence.
We will now see what He does, and, as I said before, it won’t be long. It will also be on record, whether at your site or ours or both, for all to see and to fear.
Paul
Whether you score a 6 or a 60, without justification you have played the part of an antagonistic, caustic adversary. In other words, in the vernacular of our day, you are acting like an xxhole. We don’t need a test to prove that. The evidence is right here in our correspondence.
Yes, I did prophesy that God would require respect and humility from you. That is not an evil thing or remotely resembling a curse. On the contrary, it is a very good thing. You are the one who made it a “curse” about your tongue. What you are telling us is that you would rather lose your tongue than use it for wholesome purposes; you would have God remove it first. We say, “So be it.”
I did say, “Mark your calendar.” All that meant was to note the time when you determinedly set your face towards destruction. And, no, I did not expect you to do this, or to understand. I also prophesied that when all is said and done, which will not take long, you will know that you have been dealing with the Real Thing; God is with us.
I said it will not go well for you. It can’t, not with the way you conduct yourself. The law of reaping and sowing has not been repealed. That is the truth, which does not require a prophet to pronounce.
Furthermore, even before you spoke up about your challenge of a week to fulfill the curse you determined on yourself, I prayed to God that He would give you to ask of Him what you should have for a judgment. I had no way of knowing you would actually do such a thing. But there you were, the very next day, asking that God would silence your tongue, and giving Him a week deadline to do so.
He has not. So what are you to make of this? Obviously to you it is reason to celebrate and ridicule us all the more. No doubt you will do the same with this letter. But we ask you to publish it. We certainly will. We have nothing to hide or fear.
Here is what I see: God is longsuffering, which fools mistake for non-existence.
We will now see what He does, and, as I said before, it won’t be long. It will also be on record, whether at your site or ours or both, for all to see and to fear.
Paul
More about Paul Cohen
I googled Paul, and boy, ......I don't know where to begin. He is not your regular fundy type. He is even more so. I found his or more like his cult's web site.
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/issuesoflife/index.htm
It seems another fellow named Victor and Paul spend all of their time slamming everyone and every other religion known to man. They go after the same people I dislike, go Paul!? ;}
A short list
Cameron, Kirk
Comfort, Ray
Fish, Darwin (I have one on my car)
Graham, Billy
Hinn, Benny
Lindsey, Hal
Uda, Joan (Our very own)
Warren, Rick
I agree with them except
They forgot 2 more false teachers, THEMSELVES!
I searched the site and could not make heads or tails of what the hell they mean and what they are.
S0, I found another site about them (critical) and the theory is, that they, Victor and Paul are so called present-day/latter day, self proclaimed, "apostles". Go figure
How nice
Oh, and by t he way they also want to sell you a Chi Machine. No Way? God and A Chi Machine! It's Heaven on Earth.
I can't go on, my ribs hurt from laughing so hard.
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/issuesoflife/index.htm
It seems another fellow named Victor and Paul spend all of their time slamming everyone and every other religion known to man. They go after the same people I dislike, go Paul!? ;}
A short list
Cameron, Kirk
Comfort, Ray
Fish, Darwin (I have one on my car)
Graham, Billy
Hinn, Benny
Lindsey, Hal
Uda, Joan (Our very own)
Warren, Rick
I agree with them except
They forgot 2 more false teachers, THEMSELVES!
I searched the site and could not make heads or tails of what the hell they mean and what they are.
S0, I found another site about them (critical) and the theory is, that they, Victor and Paul are so called present-day/latter day, self proclaimed, "apostles". Go figure
How nice
Oh, and by t he way they also want to sell you a Chi Machine. No Way? God and A Chi Machine! It's Heaven on Earth.
I can't go on, my ribs hurt from laughing so hard.
Objects to ‘Joy of Gay Sex’
I am tempted to go see who this Paul is Monday night. Years ago, he had called my house and left me a message on my answering machine. He called in response to my letter to the editor about Hell. I could tell he did not agree with it. I did call back, got his answering machine and did not leave a message. He did not get back to me.
He is obviously one of those relgious folk who intends on saving us from ourselves.
By Paul Cohen, 413 1/2 N. Beattie St. - 08/17/08
When I saw “The Joy of Gay Sex” on the Helena Public Library’s “New” bookshelf, I wondered, “What are they presenting to the children of our community?” It was worse than I expected. This book is full of explicit drawings of male homosexual acts of every kind imaginable.I submitted paperwork for removal. After review, four library professionals decided to keep this pornography on the shelves, approved by the library director. If I were to hand this same book to your child on the sidewalk outside the library, I would be arrested (as well I should be). These professionals, however, say: “It is our obligation to provide information to all segments of society. The library does not act in loco parentis and does not discriminate on the basis of age or sex.”That makes it our responsibility to present sane reasoning for the removal of this book (or any other like it) on behalf of those unwilling or unable. With the library absconding, the public must play the part of discriminatory, responsible parents. I will present on this matter at the public board meeting Monday, Aug. 25, at 5 p.m. at the Small Meeting Room at the library.
He is obviously one of those relgious folk who intends on saving us from ourselves.
By Paul Cohen, 413 1/2 N. Beattie St. - 08/17/08
When I saw “The Joy of Gay Sex” on the Helena Public Library’s “New” bookshelf, I wondered, “What are they presenting to the children of our community?” It was worse than I expected. This book is full of explicit drawings of male homosexual acts of every kind imaginable.I submitted paperwork for removal. After review, four library professionals decided to keep this pornography on the shelves, approved by the library director. If I were to hand this same book to your child on the sidewalk outside the library, I would be arrested (as well I should be). These professionals, however, say: “It is our obligation to provide information to all segments of society. The library does not act in loco parentis and does not discriminate on the basis of age or sex.”That makes it our responsibility to present sane reasoning for the removal of this book (or any other like it) on behalf of those unwilling or unable. With the library absconding, the public must play the part of discriminatory, responsible parents. I will present on this matter at the public board meeting Monday, Aug. 25, at 5 p.m. at the Small Meeting Room at the library.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
