What Christians See (we must all suffer)

In his Jan. 28 opinion piece CK says he was “comforted” by the recent Montana Supreme Court ruling regarding right to die. I took little comfort in it.

The ruling deals with a person asking for medication to administer to him/herself, not euthanasia, which is when a person uses medicine to end the life of another.

K wonders how this decision “could be a violation of Christian principles.” It violates, I believe, two basic principles.

First, Christians see life as a divine gift, an act of radical grace from God. This suggests that we need to treat all aspects of human life with care. It is a right to life, not a right to die.

Also, many commonly suppose the dignity lies in our ability to control our circumstances. In truth, we control little. Christians see human dignity in relationship to God and others. What if we could view suffering as a call to deepen relationship, rather than side-step it?

Two questions remain: When we seek to end life, whose suffering are we dealing with, ours or the sufferer’s? And, do not the stories chronicled point to a failure of medicine, not a call to administer death?

The Rev. FB

Comments:

ClancyCoot (me)
To simplify what tfhe Christian prinicple the Reverand is trying to tell us is that we all must suffer as God sees fit. We wretched sinners to not deserve to end our pain and suffering on our own terms.

Curmudgeon said on: February 26, 2010, 3:31 pm

In her mid 70s, my 1st cousin Margy, a Helena native, died a horrendous, lingering death from pancreatic cancer. The only thing that gave her any relief from both the pain, and the ravages of chemo, was marijuana, which was illegal in her state of CA at that time. So her sister, a respectable grandmother, had to comb the mean streets of San Fran for dealers, so she could help her suffering sister. So what do you think, Rev, she should just have "offered up" her excruciating torment for the greater glory of Sky Daddy ("God")? I don't need that kind of "God", Rev. We're all better off without such a monster.

HakonMontag said on: February 21, 2010, 8:58 am

Say Crush - care to share where you come up with all those other sorts of people who may benefit from this ruling?
Suicidal teens? Despondent divorcees?
Oh please...
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crush728 said on: February 20, 2010, 8:14 pm
Sorry Reverend, but your views have nothing to do with the right to life or right to death legislation. Separation of church and state right?
I appreciate your views and, mostly, share in them.
But, let's have this discussion as its meant to be, i.e. a political one. I for one refuse to have the government have any decision on my life. I truly hope that people can realize how dangerous it is to have legislation allowing, without major and sever limits, death rights. That means that anyone proving they could count for your medical decisions could decide that you should have the right to die. Whether you are actually ready to die or not.
This is not about some very struggling and few individuals. If you'll actually look into the history of litigation, most, if not all of these cases have been thrown out. Meaning, those who are suffering and on the verge of death do have the courts, the people behind them.
On the whole, the legislation with the right to die does not discern between an unhappy suicidal teen, a recovering alcoholic, a depressed newly divorcée, and a terminal patient in the last months of life. Nor does it distinguish between a terminal patient who is a young mother just striving for a few more months with her child and one who is ready to let go. At that stage you are giving up all rights to the government to decide whether you are worth a little more time or not.

Cheers Reverend, but this is not about religion. This is about the most basic right of human beings, the right to life.
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a_thought said on: February 20, 2010, 2:25 pm
I agree with what the Rev. says and I also admire him in taking a stand probably knowing he would meet this kind of resistance. Nice work and tahnk you.
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marquis said on: February 20, 2010, 9:39 am
Haven't Christian martyrs then violated these principles?
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Bojangles said on: February 19, 2010, 8:48 pm
You are welcome to choose for yourself Rev., but you must put aside your own personal fear (I think you call it faith) and respect that my relationship with God is all I need to know the choices for my own personal path.
I pray to God, that your church won't be in charge of my end of life. That would be a truly heartbreaking way to go for anyone. Suffering as directed by the hand of the Church. Such a sadly familiar pattern, No? Oh.. how we miss the good old days of the Crusades, right Preach?
When God calls me, I plan to answer, and you best get your Dogma the heck out of my way, thank you!
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PT said on: February 19, 2010, 1:52 pm

With all due respect to the Rev. Brookhart and his theological viewpoints, I have to disagree with his suggestion that faith is strengthened through suffering. It may or may not be. The Bible says suffering is redemptive IF it is done for the sake of the gospel. Rom.5:3-5, Rom:8-17ff, 1 Cor. 12:26, and 2 Cor. speak about suffering but they are all in the context of followers in a young, persecuted church willingly sacrificing themselves to spread the word. Surely the Reverend does not suggest that Jesus, who spent his life relieving physical pain, would find a person to be morally lacking if they chose to alleviate their own suffering in the face of a horrendous dying process. As a caregiver, I dismiss entirely the premise that there are medical means to relieve all suffering at the end of life. There is not. Anyone who says there is, has not sat at the bedsides, I have sat by. It is true that suffering brings some people closer to God. But others feel distanced and distracted. It is not for anyone but the person to decide how to approach the transition from life to death. And it is certainly not Christian to imply that a person who suffers for suffering’s sake is in some way more Christian than one who does not.

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dietz1963 said on: February 18, 2010, 7:43 pm

I always love this one. When it serves the religious purpose, then all things that happen is the will of God. When it doesn't serve religious purpose, then it has to be something else.
Reverend, who are you to say as a human being what is God's will or not or even against it? Do you have "chats" with God? And by that I mean a two way dialog? It always amazes me the arrogance of some that seem to "know" what is Gods will. News flash, there are several contradictory things within the Bible and why? How about cause it was written by human beings.
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Tiger Woops said on: February 18, 2010, 6:20 pm
As much ad it pains me to agree with purple, I applaud the comment. It is no business of and bible-thumper of and sect of religion to dictate what is right for me. Having watched several of my family die painful deaths, it should be the decision of each individual when they are ready to go. To HELL with the bible bangers and their concerns. THEY are not the ones suffering. !
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JR said on: February 18, 2010, 4:13 pm
Frankly, I dont care if you claim it violates Christian principles. So what?

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4061111 said on: February 18, 2010, 3:18 pm
Reverend, sorry, you are making a huge error in "assuming" that everyone believes as you do and as such, your interpretation that people with incurable diseases should suffer to the fullest extent until they actually die, simply so they can fulfill your vision of getting closer to God is, well, goofy.
Sir, if you should be so misfortunate as to suffer from pancreatic cancer, Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS), or some other horrific and painful, and INCURABLE disease, then you are perfectly free to either partake or not of current medical treatment. You are also free to suffer to the fullest extent of the disease so you may commune with God until your passing.
However, that is your right and your choice. But do you have the right to enforce your belief system on another? No, you do not. Any more than somebody has the right to force their belief system on you, one that you don't advocate.
Nowhere in this ruling does it say that euthanasia will be delivered as a convenience because somebody is no longer an economical asset (THERIGHTCHANGE).
The Reverend's pontificating merely supports the belief that one person (him) or one entity (the church) has more importantance in dictating the life of an individual than that individual themselves.
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checolbar said on: February 18, 2010, 10:28 am

Amen Reverend!
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mc said on: February 18, 2010, 10:03 am
rev. as a member of the helena episcopal church, and having sat in front of you during your sermon last night I have to say that you do not embody my beliefs. You may see end of life suffering as a way to be closer to god, but i see it as physical, mental, and emotional anguish that is not so easily relieved by intermittent thoughts of god waiting for you after death. medicine cannot cure death and it's wrong to force someone to suffer on the off chance that they might feel closer to god.
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HakonMontag said on: February 18, 2010, 9:20 am

Rev. - while I respect your views, your basic premisses are flawed.
Your two ending points are basically flawed as follows.
1) The law does not allow euthenasia. It allows for one to end ones own suffering. So your question as to whose suffering is being ended is flawed.
2) Your supposition that medicine is flawed is inherently opposed to your stance that all things are from God. If all things are from God as you state then we should not rely on medicine or doctors at all, since they then are interfering with the devine wisdom of God. Anyone who seeks medical attention for anything...and I mean anything...is interfering with the will of God, given your views.
You can't have it both ways.

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Purple said on: February 18, 2010, 9:04 am

May you never be afflicted with a disease for which there is no cure, a disease which leaves you in perpetual pain until death ends that pain.
When a person is diagnosed with that type of disease, their healthcare should be done "pro bono" so that the person and their family will cease having to pay for that care. Many physicians only continue courses of treatment for financial reasons - they rake in the money while the patient and their family are going bankrupt.
Wanna bet that you would be comforted by the idea of being able to end the misery you would be suffering via physician assisted suicide!
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Sisyphus said on: February 18, 2010, 8:54 am
Who has the most rights to me?
When I was a child, my parents made nearly all my decisions for me.
After I got a draft notice, the US Military had nearly complete control of "Me" for a few years.
The US Constitution:
We the People of the United States, ... secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and ...
Bishop implies that even though the Creator gave us a free will, we don't have much wiggle room when it comes to our lives, so the Church owns us.
I declare "I own me." I reject the notion ANYONE has more right to my life than I.
Not my family. Not my Government. Not my doctor. Not my neighbor. Not any church or their leaders.
it's between myself and my God. I don't need an interpreter or a lawyer to intercede.
If my God and I determine that my life is over, the rest of the world should just butt out.
Forcing any human to stick around when they and their God have decided to depart is a slap in the face to both them and their God.
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dollerholler said on: February 18, 2010, 5:53 am

The one point you are forgetting sir is.....not everyone in Montana is a christian. So if the state says you can't take your own life, based on "christian ideals" it is in violation of the bill of rights. Now I am a christian. I do happen to believe that god will call me up when he sees fit. And so it is not my place to do it for him. However, I do not think it is the governments place to tell me I have to believe that. Besides if a person conforms to christian ideas becuase he is forced to by the state, and not by his own will. Then is he really following christian beliefs?
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Therightchange said on: February 18, 2010, 2:22 am

One small step for the liberal State Supreme Court which will bring on one giant step for death panels to decide which of us it is economical to treat and which of us should die from lack of medical attention.

IQ & Atheism

An evolutionary psychologist study links a higher IQ to liberalism, atheism and promiscuous men.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html?hpt=P1

After I read this article, I was not struck by how the overused term "elitist" reared it’s ugly head once again. I’m not impressed with this study, it did not discover anything new under the sun.

Such as atheist men are smart sluts or wish they were. Just kidding, kinda

The funny part is the title of "Evolutionary Physiologist" that in itself is questioned, and his study is therefore automatically discounted by many of his colleagues. It seems to me, he is defensive (biased) right off the bat.

I wonder how much grant money was wasted on this study.

The word elitism was thrown about as usual and it was claimed by one person, that people with higher IQ's became atheists or unconventional just to show people how smart they are. Wow, I didn't know I was strutting around, purposely sticking my nose up in the air. It still surprises me how people who speak intelligently are considered elitist snobs. It boils down to people hate being embarrassed by having their irrational beliefs questioned and they blame the messenger.

Seeing the comments posted with this article, I was amazed to see over 3,700. This definitely hit a sore spot.

Of the two people quoted in this article, one was a conservative and the other a libertarian. Really?! how amazing is that. Where are the quotes from those stuck up atheists? This is not real science nor journalism CNN.

I have never considered myself being very smart, but I listen and learn from those who are.

Sweet Jesus and Bible Promises

We all know, most Christians know very little about what is in the bible (or ignore the bad parts) and most all believe in a kind and gentle Jesus.
See below for proof of what a nice guy he really was and remember that the idea of burning in hell forever was invented in the NEW Testement
The angels will reap and gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (what offences deserve eternal torment?) He spoke of the good seeds and the bad seeds, the bad sown by the devil. So how is it the fault of the bad seed if they had no choice in but being a bad seed. Ridiculous mind games of thiests.

After some in-depth bible reading (suggest it to your Christian friends) tonight, it appears all those who don't believe are going to hell. So Jews, Buddists and even us nice Athiests are bound for hell. True evil is not being a Christian. Not murder, not lying, that can be forgiven, but being an infidel is unforgivable. Even those claiming to be Christians are not guarenteed a place in heaven. It seams most of us are screwed, AND it was set up that way. Christ (The Chruch) was only concerned about conversion, pure and simple.

Mathew

18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (drown doubters) And the believers say they want to be Christ like. Thats scary.

On a lighter note

I was walking downtown recently and I over heard a silly Christian comment.

"The bible promises me a new body in heaven, I can't wait." I did a double take, and noted her current body didn't seem needing replaced. Is it a new body like a barbie doll, or the same body we grew up in but at age 20? So, if a toddler dies, does he get the body he would of had if he grew up? Is it a heavenly body, like a ghost? Do some of us get to be angles? Is there anywhere in the bible that "promises" a new body?

I will have to look it up in the Skeptics bible

Mark - Jesus responds to a tricky question by those evil Jews who are trying to call him out. It's about a widow with 7 husbands and no children, then what?

12:23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? (that must of stung)

12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. (sexless angels?)

But in other places in the bible, Angles do have sex......?

Now that is a heavenly body

bad behavior

Pope is condemning the abuse of children by priests, saying the church will never stop deploring such behavior.....

I hope so.

My time in the Navy

I forgot about this example of Navy life, which I posted on my page on the athiest NEXUS. I started to re-read it and began to giggle. At the moment I am at the library so I had to stop. So I am posting it here now instead.

One more entry to the list below not on the original.

100. Try and ignore (but not to hard) the gossip about the Chaplin.

Ever wanted to know what it’s like to be in the Navy? (1989)

Shipboard Life Simulation at Home (pick from the list randomly) for 4 years.

1. Buy a steel dumpster, paint it gray inside and out, and live in it for six months.
2. Run all the pipes and wires in your house exposed on the walls.
3. Repaint your entire house every month.
4. Renovate your bathroom. Build a wall across the middle of the bathtub and move the shower head to chest level. When you take showers, make sure you turn off the water while you soap down. (Have someone flush the toilet several times for optimum effects)
5. Put lube oil in your humidifier and set it on high.
6. Once a week, blow compressed air up your Chimney, making sure the wind carries the soot onto your neighbor's house. Ignore his complaints.
7. Once a month, take all major appliances apart and then reassemble them. Throw away any spare parts then buy more.
8. Raise the thresholds and lower the headers of your front and back doors so that you either trip or bang your head every time you pass through them.
9. Disassemble and inspect your lawnmower every week. (Initial and tag it)
10. On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, turn your water heater temperature up to 200 degrees. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, turn the water heater off. On Saturdays and Sundays tell your family they use too much water during the week, so no bathing will be allowed.
11. Raise your bed to within 10 inches of the ceiling, so you can't turn over without getting out and then getting back in or sleep on the shelf in your closet. Replace the closet door with a curtain. Have your spouse whip open the curtain about 3 hours after you go to sleep, shine a flashlight in your eyes and say "Sorry, wrong rack."
13. Make your family qualify to operate each appliance in your house – Dishwasher-Operator, Toaster -Technician, etc.
14. Have your neighbor come over each day at 5 AM, blow a whistle so loud Helen Keller could hear it, and shout "Reveille, Reveille, all hands heave out and trice up."
15. Have your mother-in-law write down everything she's going to do the following day, then have her make you stand in your back yard at 6 AM while she reads it to you.
16. Submit a request chit to your father-in-law requesting permission to leave your house before 3 PM.
17. Empty all the garbage bins in your house and sweep the driveway three times a day, whether it needs it or not. Beforehand announce "Now Sweepers, Sweepers, man your brooms, give the ship a clean sweep down fore and aft empty all trash cans over the fantail (deck)."
18. Have your neighbor collect all your mail for a month, read your magazines and randomly lose every 5th item before delivering it to you.
19. Watch no TV except for very old movies played in the middle of the night. Have your family vote on which movie to watch, and then show a different one.
20. When your children are in bed, run into their room with a megaphone shouting that your home is under attack and ordering them to their battle stations by yelling over and over again, "General quarters, General quarters, all hands man your battle stations."
21. Make your family menu a month ahead of time without consulting the pantry or refrigerator.
22. Post a daily menu on the kitchen door informing your family that they are having steak for dinner. Then make them wait in line for an hour. When they finally get to the kitchen, tell them you are out of steak, but they can have dried ham or hot dogs. Repeat daily until they ignore the menu and just ask for hot dogs.
23. Bake a cake. Prop up one side of the pan so the cake bakes unevenly. Spread icing real thick to level it off.
24. Get up every night around midnight and have a peanut butter sandwich on stale bread.
25. Set your alarm clock to go off at random during the night. At the alarm, jump up and dress as fast as you can, making sure to button your top shirt button and tuck your pants into your socks. Run out into the backyard and uncoil the garden hose. (Standby until given the "all clear")
26. Every week or so, throw your cat or dog in the pool and shout over and over again ” Man overboard Man overboard port side." Rate your family members on how they respond.
27. Put the headphones from your stereo on your head, but don't plug them in. Hang a paper cup around your neck on a string. Stand in front of the stove, and speak into the paper cup "Stove manned and ready." After an hour or so, speak into the cup again "Stove secured." Roll up the headphones and paper cup and stow them in a shoe box.
28. Place a podium at the end of your driveway. Have your family stand watches at the podium, rotating at 4 hour intervals. This is best done when the weather is the worst. January is a good time.
29. When a thunderstorm is in your area, get a wobbly rocking chair, sit in it and rock as hard as you can until you become nauseous. Make sure to have a supply of stale crackers in your shirt pocket.
30. For former Engineers, bring your lawn mower into the living room, and run it all day long.
31. Make coffee using eighteen scoops of budget priced coffee grounds per pot. Allow the pot to simmer 5 hours before drinking.
32. Have someone under the age of ten give you a haircut with sheep shears.
33. Sew the back pockets of your jeans on the front.
34. Every weekend when not on duty, dress up in your best clothes. Take a taxi to the scariest part of town. Find the most rundown trashiest bar. Drink beer until you are hammered. Walk all the way home.
35. Stock up on supplies and lock yourself and your family in the house for six weeks. Tell them that at the end of the 6th week you are going to take them to Disney World for "liberty." At the end of the 6th week, inform them the trip to Disney World has been canceled because they need to get ready for an inspection, and it will be another week before they can leave the house.
36. Buy a World War II gas mask. Using steel wool, scratch up the visor until you can no longer see out of it.
37. Do not ever, ever wash your coffee cup.
38. Have all your wisdom teeth removed.
39. If your kids are sick and don’t want to go to school, have them sit on hard bench for hours then give them Motrin and tell them to go to school.
40. If the kids are using unauthorized electronics in the house, cut off the end of the power cable.
41. When smoking, everyone is required to light up at the same time.
42. Arm one of the kids with a pellet gun and have them walk around the house and report ‘all secure” to you every 15 minutes for 4 hours every 4 days.
43. Once a year, have a shellback initiation. That morning make someone wear their clothes inside out, force them crawl around on their hand and knees all day, everyone else gets to beat them with fire hoses, and smear rancid peanut butter with hot sauce all over their face. Make up other harmless tortures and have fun
44. Have the kids and spouse salute you every time you walk by. Salute back.
45. In the morning there must be at least two people brushing their teeth at the same time at one sink. Remember to turn off the spigot between spits.
46. At four in the morning, go stand next to someone in bed, turn on a hair dryer, spray on deodorant and or use hairspray.
47. Replace all the bedding with wool blankets.
48. Have someone stand mail buoy watch once a week.
49. Remind the family they can’t quit, they are property of the United States.
50, If you happen to overhear someone speaking in a foreign language, tell them to learn English.



Sure do miss my time in the Navy (not really) Now, I’m having flashbacks.

Please, anyone add to this list, I find it quite amusing